Apr 14

Apr 14 Episode 490: Kristin Urquiza

In conversation with Kristin Urquiza, Co-Founder of Marked by COVID, about the need to address our collective grief as we attempt to move into a post-pandemic world.

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Musical credits:

"Are You Listening" from Elephant Shaped Trees by IMUNURI.
Released February 3, 2018.
Composed by André Pilette, with the help of Adam Garcia, Stephanie Leary, and Dan Wilson.
Lyrics written by Stephanie Leary.
Produced by André Pilette and Stephanie Leary.
Mixed by Brett Ryan Stewart of The Sound Shelter in Nashville, TN.
Mastered by Michael Fossenkemper of Turtle Tone Studio in NYC.
Song used with permission by the band.

Episode Transcript

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Teddy 0:00

Hi, this is Teddy. And today you're listening to Kristin Urquiza, founder of Marked by COVID, on Two Broads Talking Politics.

Kelly 0:29

Hi, everyone. I'm Kelly. And this is Two Broads Talking Politics. I'm on with my co-host, Sophy. Hey, Sophy.

Sophy 0:36

Hey, Kelly.

Kelly 0:38

And we are joined today by a returning guest, Kristin Urquiza, who is the founder of Marked by COVID. Hi, Kristen.

Kristin Urquiza 0:46

Hi.

Kelly 0:47

So last time I talked to you was back in October. A lot of things have changed in the world, in the country, and in the landscape of COVID, since October. But I want to start by asking you just how you are. Last time I talked to you, it was just a few months after your father had passed from COVID. I think we both ended up crying while you were talking. So I just want to hear how you are, how things are going.

Kristin Urquiza 1:16

Well, when I think back to October, and I describe it to people, I I talk about October in particular as a blur, an emotional blur. It was then that it, it started to really hit me, and I also was home with my mom. So she and I finally had had the opportunity to have some time to be together. And now I feel I'm doing much better. I still have hard times here and there. And a lot of times that's outside of my control, but I feel grounded in ways that I wasn't feeling when last time we talked.

Kelly 2:03

Yeah. And I wanted to ask too, I know you just got your second vaccine shot recently. And I know so many people getting the vaccine shot talk about this sense of relief and excitement. Is Is that what you felt? Is it different knowing that something can now be prevented that took someone from you. What, what was that experience like for you?

Kristin Urquiza 2:27

I did not feel relieved. I'm glad you're asking. I mean, you know, I was grateful for, I am grateful for the vaccines. And it's just really impressive to see. I went to one of the big huge distribution centers here in San Francisco. And it was very smooth, but I felt awful. I felt like the shot should have been my dad's. And I kept on thinking about these like, you know, viral particles going through my body. And yeah, just being so angry at them for taking my dad's life. So it was a very different experience. I was really sad for a couple of days after I got my second shot. The second shot in particular just was really emotionally heavy for me. And yeah, so it's complicated.

Kelly 3:29

So let's then talk some about where we are right now. I mean, I, just listening to what you have said, so far, you know, it's, there's this sort of collective experience we all have. But then there's these individual experiences people have had over the past year as well. So talk a little bit about Marked by COVID, the organization that you founded, what you're doing now and kind of what what this moment looks like for your organization.

Kristin Urquiza 4:03

Sure. Well, we are working to ensure that the people who've been most impacted by COVID, so folks who have experienced COVID loss, people who are still suffering from the symptoms, and other impacts as well, we're working to make sure that they are not forgotten, and that they are supported. And so what that means it does go to both the collective side and the individual side, we're hosting a couple of meetings a week in which people come together to be able to support one another, build relationships with each other but then also work together on different actions to raise their voice and brainstorm different ways they can, you know, support one another. And then we are on sort of a larger scale, we released our policy platform in January, which is guided by two principles, one is centering around the needs of people most impacted, but then two, also is, we believe commensurate to the scale of the problem. So the type of federal response ongoing, needs to be that of a size, order of magnitude that we really only see, during war time or during, for example, the Great Depression, in order to really ensure that the economy gets on track, and that COVID, you know, survivors and family members. You know, again, this word left behind, we are so worried about leaving, being left behind. And that is that, that is reiterated in every single conversation that I have almost with with individuals who've been impacted by COVID, feeling like this rush for normal, this rush towards normal, this excitement that's starting to percolate out there. While we all want to get back to normal, there is no normal for me. I mean, I don't have my dad anymore. But also, you know, we kind of have this question, you know, why would we want to go back to normal when normal is what got us here in the first place? So it's complicated.

Sophy 6:32

Can you talk a little bit about sort of the shift? Have you seen a shift in federal response? How do you think the federal response now compares to the federal response the last time you talked to us in October?

Kristin Urquiza 6:44

Well, we've seen a drastic change where it comes to focus on data driven response, when with the coordination and the vaccines, and ensuring that states have those supplies that they need, and there's consistent information available and updates. And and I've been incredibly impressed by that. And, and that's, you know, night and day. The, the thing that I think we can improve upon, though, has to do with this recognition piece in ensuring that we start to deal with the the very complicated problem of both grief, individual and collective grief, as well, as you know, how are we going/ what does restitution begin to look like for the gross negligence that our government has plagued upon us? That's resulted in now we're seeing probably 400,000 extra deaths? Like that's an, that is an order of magnitude that I'm not sure. I can quite wrap my head around for this country.

Kelly 8:03

What would the, so there there's the sort of restitution piece but but this sort of more emotional grieving piece, what what would that look like? What could that look like? What are some ways that you think that that the people who have really been impacted by COVID could could feel that they're not being left behind that, that they and their loved ones are being remembered and honored in a way that is appropriate?

Kristin Urquiza 8:32

I think the first step is to establish a permanent COVID Memorial Day, to carve out a time in our calendar that, you know, for the foreseeable future, will be a space for remembrance and warning, which will also demand that curriculum is created to help teach young folks about what happened, what we learned, and why, and will also really help fight back against some of the naysayers that are out there that, you know, this wasn't a big deal or that it didn't happen. And I think that's the first step. And then you know, from there, our folks are desperately in need of spaces for memorial and rememberance at so that, to us, looks like a monument on the Mall. It looks like funding for state and local, tribal monuments for folks who can't actually make it to Washington to have spaces for grief and reflection. And so it's a both a sort of, you know, it's a calendar thing, but it's also a in real life thing. And I think that you know, those, there's never going to be a way to fully capture every single story, but we have to work to capture some of the just breadth as well as incredible depths of impact that this has had on our entire society.

Sophy 10:10

You mentioned a little bit about sort of learning, telling future generations about what happened. Can you talk a little bit about sort of what you think the lessons learned are because this is, I work in public health and pandemic is likely to happen again, in in, you know, the future, but doesn't necessarily have to be as terrible as this one is. So what do you think, are the lessons that our federal government and state governments should learn from what happened to prevent this from happening next time around?

Kristin Urquiza 10:44

Yeah, one thing I think about is how when I was a little girl, you know, the bubonic plague, or the Spanish Flu was like a mere paragraph in a history book that I glossed over once versus things like, you know, the Civil War and the American Revolution, World War One and World War Two, those were like entire lessons, if not books and classes devoted to it. So that's why I talk about education, and that getting it right now and starting to create the public memory, and the permission for us to actually capture the truth, I think is going to be really essential to building more curriculum from a young age about public health in general. So that it's not some sort of elective once you're in college. From, you know, our government standpoint, I think we, in order to know the full truth, I think we need a commission that fully investigates our preparedness, our response. And, and, and really looks at that against the, you know, that pandemic playbook and kind of catalogs the mistakes and missteps. And I think that, you know, as far as I see that there is a huge problem with unchecked misinformation, there is, you know, was a huge problem with the, you know, the president-then himself being able to say, whatever he wanted whenever he wanted to downplay the virus, and it's, you know, some of those, we need to know more about what was going on, in order to really fully comprehend how to protect ourselves, but more importantly, protect our communities, protect this country from, you know, a leader in the future who may not have the country's best interest in mind.

Kelly 12:44

I don't know if Sophy remembers this, but back in, I think it was March of 2018, we talked to Reid Wilson, he'd written a book called Epidemic: Ebola and the Global Scramble to Prevent the Next Killer Outbreak. And I remember the message that he told us was basically, Ebola didn't become a global pandemic, because the Obama administration stepped in and made sure it didn't, and how terrified he was then going to be worse the next time around. And I you know, I just I keep going back to that in thinking we we knew this, you know, it's the, these lessons weren't unknowable ahead of time. And yeah, I think you're absolutely right about a commission to look at all the points of failure and all the points of failure that were completely preventable.

Kristin Urquiza 13:37

Yeah, I, you know, that share that story you just shared reminded me of, you know, this time last year, I have a friend who is an epidemiologist who specializes in pandemics; he was in West Africa, part of that Obama deployment team, and the look on his face, like in February and March of last year on a daily basis was like, you know, Kristin, we are not doing what we know how to do and, and this is going to be really bad if we don't step it up. And so that's like this, that's the great thing we know, you know, with this, we we we know how to contain it to some extent. And also, we're incredibly lucky that this isn't like in our water or the type of airborne where it can travel miles like it could be a lot worse. So we need to be on top of everything we know, to be able to prevent something far worse from happening down the road, down the road. And you know, the transfer of disease from wildlife to humans is is a big thing that we have to worry about with the influx of industrial agriculture and deforestation in the global south. So yeah, all signs are pointing to this could happen again and and we need to be ready in a way that we can can be, and I think that investigation will help to connect the dots.

Sophy 15:05

Let's talk a little bit about misinformation; you had mentioned that the spread of unchecked information was a major factor in how bad this epidemic has gotten. And I'm wondering what you think we can do against misinformation to sort of stem the tide? That's something I've been struggling with as a person who works with vaccine hesitant people. How do we, without like, going back in time and making sure everybody in the population is educated in science, which is not possible, really combat that misinformation, when it's so easy for it to spread.

Kristin Urquiza 15:45

Right. It's, I mean, it's a wildfire that we're fighting with a garden hose. And I think part of our ability to be resilient, has to do with having really strong communications with leaders in communities towards what real information is, and that, you know, isn't necessarily going back and and perfectly teaching everyone but it's, it's I think, part of our marketing and public outreach, and education needs to really uplift and prop and, and and fortify whether it's faith leaders or community leaders, or others who have deep ties with communities to become ambassadors of you know, what's right, and help kind of spread the message, which ultimately means we need to invest a whole lot more in sort of grassroots strategies for, you know, communication and PR. And, you know, I think it'll make a dent in at least helping people develop some critical thinking skills, whenever they're seeing their, you know, their pastor say, listen, this thing is real. And you need to take it very seriously. Here is a handout that is, has the CDC guidelines, we'll be holding the workshop after Sunday school on Sunday. It's free, there'll be pizza for everyone. And we're going to talk about how to protect yourself and your family.

Kelly 17:23

So, I want to go back for a minute to the idea of restitution. Can you talk some about the the kinds of costs and financial difficulty that, that some people who have been impacted by COVID face and the kinds of things that the government can, could provide, that would help start to deal with this issue of restitution?

Kristin Urquiza 17:52

Yeah, I mean, it's, it is a lot to manage, I mean, a COVID death is very quick in a lot of instances, it's sudden and unexpected. So like, for me, you know, I had no, my dad was, you know, barely 65 and completely, you know, healthy, and I was not at all prepared to pay for his funeral, which, you know, we had a very, and burial services service, and we had a very, very limited, you know, sort of ceremony and just for the basics was around $13,000. And, you know, on top of that people are having to deal with a ton of out of pocket costs for their own sort of mental health as well as grief counseling, there's a lot of great services that are available. And, you know, folks have to do the homework and kind of, can kind of put together a patchwork of support. But, you know, for me, for example, I have over the course of the last nine months, between specialists and doctors and medication have paid over $6,000 in support for my mental health, which I wasn't, you know, that wasn't something that I needed a year ago. And so these little things continue to add up and many families are also dealing with legal battles, whether whatever they're you know, a lot of folks have passed and didn't have their affairs in order or don't don't didn't have a will, didn't have life insurance or other types of loss of income insurance, and so families are just left picking up the pieces, scrambling. You open up my Facebook feed and it's just GoFundMe after GoFundMe after GoFundMe of folks trying to raise money to not just only cover funeral costs, but for the myriad of everything else, that comes after losing a loved one to COVID. And don't even get me started on the children, of which there are 40,000 kids out there that lost one or both parents. What are we going to do to make sure that those kids have the care and the support and the funds to go to college, to ensure that that that we don't forget about them. I mean, it, we have a lot of work to do. And I know we can do it, we just need to make sure that our leaders choose to see us moving forward, and know that this is going to be a dynamic grief journey. And that our needs over time may also change as we move further away from this and and you know, people who are suffering from long term symptoms of COVID might have other needs that come up. I know that there's been some studies recently about, like 30% of COVID patients having dementia problems or other mental health problems as a result. So this is, this is a lot.

Kelly 21:23

So what would you like then our listeners to do, to make sure, you know, either on an individual basis or more, you know, how do we make sure that the federal government is thinking about this and is moving forward with ways to both memorialize the COVID victims and survivors and also to think about this restitution piece?

Kristin Urquiza 21:49

Well, we're officially nonprofit, which is exciting or 100%, and small donor funded. So if this has spoken to you, definitely go to MarkedByCOVID.com/donate, and give, you know, a contribution of what you can. And the second thing to do also there is you sign up for our newsletter to stay up to date. And if you're feeling like a little extra, contact your lawmaker, send them a letter saying, hey, what are you doing right now for the families of people who have passed away. I know, you know, my co worker is really struggling. And I don't want her to be left behind. And so I think the more that we, in our, you know, while we're celebrating that we are moving closer to a post pandemic world, we're doing that and also acknowledging that we have a lot of work to do to ensure that the folks who can't return to normal can find a pathway forward as well.

Kelly 22:56

We'll make sure that we put a link up on our website, to the website and to the social media for Marked by COVID as well. Kristin, thank you so much for coming on to talk to us again. And thank you for making sure that everyone continues to to think about this and to remember, and you're right it's easy to get wrapped up in the getting back to normal but but there there is no normal to get back to so we need to be mindful of that and remember the lessons and remember the people that we've lost.

Kristin Urquiza 23:30

Thank you.

Sonya 23:32

Thank you for listening to Two Broads Talking Politics part of the DemCast Podcast Network. Our theme song is called "Are You Listening?" off of the album Elephant Shaped Trees by the band IMUNURI and we're using it with permission of the band. Our logo and other original artwork is by Matthew Weflen, and was created for use by this podcast. You can contact us at TwoBroadsTalkingPolitics@gmail.com or on Twitter or Facebook @TwoBroadsTalk. You can find all of our episodes at TwoBroadsTalkingPolitics.com or anywhere podcasts are found

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Apr 14 Episode 490: Kristin Urquiza

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Musical credits:

Episode Transcript

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