May 3

May 3 Episode 496: Sarah Brafman from A Better Balance

In conversation with Sarah Brafman, Director of the D.C. Office and Senior Policy Counsel for A Better Balance. A Better Balance, a national nonprofit advocacy organization, uses the power of the law to advance justice for workers, so they can care for themselves and their loved ones without jeopardizing their economic security. A Better Balance is hosting a Pregnant Workers Fairness Act Week of Action May 3-7.

Musical credits:

"Are You Listening" from Elephant Shaped Trees by IMUNURI.
Released February 3, 2018.
Composed by André Pilette, with the help of Adam Garcia, Stephanie Leary, and Dan Wilson.
Lyrics written by Stephanie Leary.
Produced by André Pilette and Stephanie Leary.
Mixed by Brett Ryan Stewart of The Sound Shelter in Nashville, TN.
Mastered by Michael Fossenkemper of Turtle Tone Studio in NYC.
Song used with permission by the band.

Episode Transcript

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This transcript is AI-produced and may contain errors. Please check back a few days after the episode airs for a cleaned-up version of the transcript.

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Teddy 0:00

Hi, this is Teddy and today you're listening to Sarah Brafman, the director of the DC office in senior policy counsel for a better balance. The work and family legal center on Two Broads Talking Politics. Get your vaccine you wear a mask.

Kelly 0:36

Hi everyone. I am Kelly. This is Two Broads Talking Politics. I'm on with the other broads. Sophy. Hi, Sophy.

Sophy 0:43

Hey, Kelly.

Kelly 0:44

And we are joined today by Sarah Bronfman, who is the director of the DC office of a better balance. Welcome, Sarah.

Sarah Brafman 0:52

Thank you so much for having me and Kelly and Sophy.

Kelly 0:55

Yes. So this episode is going up on a Monday morning. But we are talking the day after President Biden's address the not State of the Union State of the Union joint address to Congress. And it's an exciting time to be talking about families and family leave and exciting protections for us. So this is a fortuitous time to be talking. But let's start Sarah with tell us just a little bit about what a better balance is. And having said that, how do I find a better balance?

Sarah Brafman 1:31

Let's start with who a better balance is. So you can find us at a better balance.org. And we are illegal advocacy organizations started 15 years ago by a group of women's rights lawyers. And our mission from day one has been to advance justice for workers so they can care about themselves for themselves and their families without sacrificing their economic security. And in our founding documents, we talked about there being a care crisis in this country. And it's pretty exciting to see the rest of the country wake up to the need for paid leave the need to center caregiving as integral to our economic stability and our economic future. So I have to say last night was a really big moment for us because to hear the President say, No one should have to choose between their family and a paycheck was just gave us the chills to hear that because that's what we have been talking about for 15 years.

Kelly 2:45

Yeah, I think they panned in the feed. I was watching, at least to Senator Warren, and she gave us like fist bump. And I was like, Yes, yes. That is I think how we were all feeling right now. So we are talking right now. It's, as I mentioned, fortuitous timing. But in part, we're talking now because this is the start of the launch of this week, this week of action that you're doing for the pregnant workers Fairness Act, which is a big deal that is just been introduced to the Senate. So could you talk just what is the pregnant workers Fairness Act, and then we can talk some about what we can all do to make sure that it passes.

Sarah Brafman 3:27

Yeah. And so to take a step back and thinking about caregiving, and working families, there are so many issues that we have to think about when we think about supporting working families. paid leave is a core issue for us. We have been leading on that in the States, we lead on that on the federal level, we lead a campaign called paid leave for all. And we have to be thinking about the lives of people because people's lives don't work just based on one bill or two bills, but based on what their caregiving needs are. And what we find is that often what happens is that pregnant workers start facing discrimination immediately when they get pregnant. So before even having the chance to take paid leave or access paid leave, or find out if they can access paid leave, they might be pushed off the job because they're pregnant. And 15 or 10 years ago, I should say. My boss, Dean of backs, who's one of our co founders and co presidents started getting a lot of calls on our on our helpline we run a free legal helpline where any worker across the country can call us if they are having trouble around caregiving issues and the workplace. And we started hearing over and over from women who needed modest accommodations, you know, changes to the workplace. That could look like meeting Do not lift over 50 pounds, because that could cause a miscarriage, needing extra bathroom breaks, needing to carry a water bottle on the retail floor. Oftentimes companies will have policies that you can't carry a water bottle. And so asking a supervisor Can I do that but not being allowed to, and fainting on the retail floor because they got so dehydrated, which can cause serious health consequences for anyone but especially for pregnant workers. And getting these calls was not only deeply disturbing to us, but as lawyers, we wanted to dive into that a little bit more. Why was it the case that pregnant workers were being pushed out of the workforce? Or why was it that they weren't getting accommodated and being forced to risk their health because they couldn't work without accommodations. And what we found is that there are real gaps in the law, when it comes to workers being able to get accommodations for pregnancy, the Pregnancy Discrimination Act passed 40 years ago, but there is no affirmative right in that law to get accommodations. There's a very complicated standard, which I won't bore your listeners with. But what we found is that this law is not adequate for pregnant women who need accommodations on the job. And Congress really needs to step in and act to really fill those gaps. And that's what the pregnant workers Fairness Act does. It really fills critical, very problematic gaps in the law around accommodations for pregnant workers by basically sort of borrowing from what the standard is for workers with disabilities who are granted accommodations unless it would be really difficult or really expensive for their employers to provide. So we sort of borrowed that standard. And that's what the standard would be for pregnant workers who have needs related to their pregnancy. And I should say to, you know, a lot of the workers who are impacted here, this can impact everyone. We've heard stories from so many sectors, we've talked with 1000s of pregnant workers over the years, but it disproportionately impacts low wage workers who work in physically demanding jobs. And that falls disproportionately on black and Latino workers and women of color. And, you know, from the pandemic, we know, a lot of those workers are essential workers, and yet, we're continuing to push them out when they're pregnant and need a paycheck often the most,

Sophy 7:42

can you tell us a little bit about the week of action and what kind of like events you're gonna have?

Sarah Brafman 7:46

Yes, so we're very excited for the upcoming pregnant workers Fairness Act week of action that starts this week, and it runs through Thursday. And the the legislation is in a really exciting place. So for those who are interested in taking action, this is the moment the bill has passed through the committee procedure in the House of Representatives, and so it is ready for a vote on the floor of the House of Representatives. It is teed up to go. And we really want to encourage House leadership to honor expecting parents to honor mothers in advance of Mother's Day and bring this bill to the floor. You know what better way to do that than bypassing the pregnant workers Fairness Act. So on Tuesday, we are going to be hosting a Twitter rally and encourage everyone to participate. It's going to be at 2pm. Eastern 11pm 11am. Pacific I'm sorry. And we really want to lift up the motto for the week is respect pregnancy, honor, mothers demand equality, and pass the pregnant workers Fairness Act. So to the extent that you can lift up that message, the hashtag is protect pregnant workers, and really make your voice heard. And on Wednesday, we are going to really try to lift up the stories of those women who have been really impacted by this. You know, we have worked with women like Armando Legros, who was pushed out of her job at an armored truck company because she needed a lifting accommodation. And she could not afford she had a child already. She was a single parent and she was so reliant on that paycheck that when she lost it, she didn't even have milk to put in her children cereal so she had to put water and it makes me to almost tear up every single time. I have to say that because how is that happening in the United States of America right now. So on Wednesday, we are going to be lifting up Stories of workers like armanda. And we encourage you to share your own story because the more we talk about this issue, the more it comes out of the woodwork that this has happened to so many women in the workplace, or that they were too scared to even ask. And the bend, really having legislation is so that we change the culture in our society so that people don't feel afraid to ask for modest accommodations, they won't feel afraid to ask for what they need to stay healthy and working. Because there's now you know, a federal law that supports them in doing that. So please share your story up, lift the stories that are shared, and and make sure that legislators hear those stories. And the third thing we'll be doing is on Thursday, we're having a Take Action Day. And like I said, because the bill is really moving in the house, we're encouraging people to write to their to their congressional members, asking them to vote yes, on this for a Mother's Day vote. And the other exciting thing is that the bill was introduced on Thursday, just this past Thursday in the Senate, with bipartisan support. And we really think this bill can get over the finish line and get signed into law by President Biden. So to the extent that you can also write to your senator, asking that they co sponsor the bill would be hugely impactful. And lastly, I'll say we are hosting a Facebook Live event on Thursday as well, it will be at 1pm, we will have an incredible worker sharing her story, the executive director of black mamas matter alliance will be joining to uplift the voices of black workers who experience just horrific discrimination on the job intersecting with racism. And our co president, Tina Baxter will be there. We can expect congressional members to join. And it's really an opportunity to dive further into the issue and learn more. And then moving forward. It's really keeping the pressure on this is an exciting moment. But it only happens if people make their voices heard. And we will continue to keep everyone updated. I encourage everyone to join a better balances mailing list, we send frequent updates and take actions and ways to keep people engaged, especially in your own state, because we also partner with state advocates as well, who can really help support this issue in your state. Specifically,

Kelly 12:38

you mentioned I think the thing that is so exciting about this is that there is a bipartisan group introducing in the Senate. We don't see that a whole lot in any legislation lately. So it is really interesting. And I think, you know, do we do we think that these are the kinds of issues that we can finally maybe find some consensus find some reaching across the aisle on I mean, that pregnancy doesn't just affect democrats or just affect Republicans, you know, these sorts of issues, it seems like could really be a way to build bridges. And you know, showing compassion for pregnant workers seems like the kind of thing. I mean, do you see that? Clearly, there are some Republican senators, along with Democrats who are signing on to that, do you see that kind of groundswell of support?

Sarah Brafman 13:32

I do. I think that this bill is an incredible opportunity to, to join hands with Republicans and Democrats, who can understand that being pregnant shouldn't mean the end of your career, that being pregnant shouldn't mean that you go to work and have to risk your health when you're pregnant. And that, at the end of the day, we all want to see healthy mothers and healthy babies. And that is good for everyone. Because these are this is the future generation. This is the current generation. And these are the people we all love and care for. And I'll say to that, I think the more we can come together on this issue, the the more we can also think about coming together on issues like paid leave on issues like paid sick time, and, you know, and issues around breastfeeding and all of the issues that can ensure, you know, working families don't have to be put in these impossible situations. And it's this is a huge start, and the pregnant workers Fairness Act will deeply impact people's lives. And we still need all of these other policies to get over the finish line. So having a place to start is incredibly important towards building places that we can also go together.

Sophy 15:08

So we discussed the pregnant workers Fairness Act, I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit about the American families Act, which is proposing some paid family leave, and childcare assistance. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about that bill, and sort of what you're hoping to see get passed in it.

Sarah Brafman 15:31

The American families plan is deeply exciting. It is. Yet, you know, the president speech was the first time in American history that an American President has laid out a comprehensive paid leave program. You know, we are one of not even a handful of nations that does not have a paid leave program. And we need to catch up. And President Biden recognizes that. And what that program looks like is 12 weeks of comprehensive paid family and medical leave. So that includes bonding with a new child that includes time off to care for a seriously ill loved one that includes time off to care for your own serious illness. And that it's really important, because there are there's a lot of discussion about paid leave and what it looks like. But what's important to remember is that the President's plan is both really comprehensive, but also really accessible. At the same time, it is feasible, we can get it done. You know, we have worked at a better balance in many states across the country, to pass paid family and medical leave programs. And they are working and they are exciting. And they are also not breaking the bank and not putting employers out of business. And everyone is able to keep the lights on and their employees happy doing it. So that is one big piece of the American families plan. Another big piece that you mentioned, Sophy is childcare. You know, I think we saw during the pandemic, millions of women not having the childcare support that they need. And that was not surprising, because this country does not have the infrastructure it needs around childcare accessibility, especially for low wage workers. Nor does it pay childcare workers a respectable living wage to be able to do some of our country's most important work, which is raising our children. So there was a lot of a lot of excitement around the, you know, the American rescue plan infuse billions of dollars into the childcare industry. But the President and his speech laid out $225 billion more for childcare investment. He laid out extending childcare tax credits for dependents, which is so critical, he laid out that low income families will not have to pay seven more than 7% of their income towards childcare, which already you know, 7% might sound high. But there are families that pay 30 or 40% of their income towards

Kelly 18:27

Sophia and I know. Yeah.

Sarah Brafman 18:30

I bet I mean, some some women decide not to work, because it doesn't make financial sense, given how much childcare costs and to really see a bold plan around how you're going to create a childcare infrastructure is is so exciting. And so needed. It's it's just so needed, you kind of ask yourself, how have we waited so long for this to come about? I think we all know the answer. And the past four years have been very difficult, a very uphill battle. But it is a new day. It is a new day. And we can we can get this done. I mean, what's important to remember about the American families plan is that the President lays out the plan and Congress needs to carry out the plan. So the work is really just beginning on that. And there will be so many opportunities to engage on this issue. So again, I really encourage folks to sign up for a better balance, a better balances listserv, you can go straight on to our website and really see you know, sign up for your email list and you will get plenty of opportunities to engage. We promise not too many, but given where we are It's just such an exciting an exciting time. You know, I messaged one of one of our partners today. And I said, there's there, it almost feels like there's too much good news happening right now, it doesn't feel natural that there's so so many good things happening. So I'm kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. But I think at the same time, that good news has to be buttressed by hard work. And we are not there. None of these exciting ideas that have been put out there our policies yet they are just ideas. And so it takes a critical mass of people coming forward and saying, Yes, we need this. Yes, we need this. Yes, we need this, to actually get it over the finish line. Because that that is policy policy, is putting out the ideas and getting them over the finish line.

Kelly 20:53

Yeah, it is so exciting. It would be so life changing. I mean, this is another thing that, of course, disproportionately affects people who are in poverty, it disproportionately affects people of color. But, you know, people who work middle class office jobs like me, like Sophy are absolutely affected. I mean, my second child, I went back to work after nine weeks, I couldn't afford to stay home any longer. I you know, that's the thought of being able to stay home even for 12 weeks to bond with a new child and to recover physically recover from pregnancy is just, it's amazing. And of course, childcare wouldn't make all the difference.

Sarah Brafman 21:31

All the difference really makes all the difference. I mean, 12 weeks should just be the minimum. I mean, it just needs to be standard minimum 12 weeks, paid time off. I mean, Hear hear, just thinking about, you know, we hear from women who go back to work after two days. I mean, how you can recover, let alone work in two days after giving birth? Is

Unknown Speaker 22:09

it is

Kelly 22:12

it inhumane?

Sarah Brafman 22:13

It's inhumane, I want it to you know, it's inhumane, inhumane. And it is, you know, bringing children into the world is an incredible thing that needs to be honored so deeply. And we we just ignore it and pretend like, you know, you shouldn't have to, everything should just be fine. You know, the minute you give birth, and you should get back into the workforce. And that that can't be the case, that just can't be the case.

Kelly 22:48

Well, we have an army of moms listening. So hopefully, you are all taking notes, and we'll go sign up for the better balance email list. So we all know exactly what actions we need to take. So Sarah, remind us of the website and how people can find out more.

Sarah Brafman 23:05

The website is a better balance.org. I think a lot of people sometimes think it's better balance, but it's a better balance. And you will find information right on the homepage about how to sign up for our listserv, and about the pregnant workers Fairness Act week of action. So we definitely look forward to seeing you in the in the digital world.

Kelly 23:31

Excellent, sir. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about today?

Sarah Brafman 23:35

I just I want to thank you both. Because I know that you both have day jobs in addition to this podcast. And we often talk about the second shift, but you all do a third shift. So I am really just incredibly impressed and thankful that you invited me on to the show today. And I want to recognize both the the paid and unpaid work that you that you both do.

Kelly 24:03

Thanks. Well, thank you. And thank you so much for the work that you are doing. I'm sure as a lawyer, you could make more money somewhere else. But I am so thrilled that you do this kind of work. It's just so needed and and you're having such excellent results now. So that's really exciting. All right. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. And we will put links up on our website to a better balance and to the pregnant workers Fairness Act week of action so everyone can find the information about that. So thank you.

Sarah Brafman 24:36

Thank you so much.

Sonya 24:38

Thank you for listening to Two Broads Talking Politics part of the DemCast Podcast Network. Our theme song is called Are you listening off of the album elephant shaped trees by the band m unary. And we're using it with permission of the band. Our logo and other original artwork is by Matthew Westland, and was created for use by this podcast. You can contact us At Two Broads, Talking politics@gmail.com or on Twitter or Facebook at two broads talk you can find all of our episodes at Two Broads, Talking politics.com or anywhere podcasts are found.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai