May 28

May 28 Episode 505: Anna Musky-Goldwyn & Anthony Barkett from Political Playlist

In conversation with Anna Musky-Goldwyn and Anthony Burkett, two of the three co-founders of Political Playlist, a nonpartisan news aggregator created for Millennials by Millennials in an effort to educate young voters about the next generation of political leaders through customized content based around each user's specific views and beliefs.

Musical credits:

"Are You Listening" from Elephant Shaped Trees by IMUNURI.
Released February 3, 2018.
Composed by André Pilette, with the help of Adam Garcia, Stephanie Leary, and Dan Wilson.
Lyrics written by Stephanie Leary.
Produced by André Pilette and Stephanie Leary.
Mixed by Brett Ryan Stewart of The Sound Shelter in Nashville, TN.
Mastered by Michael Fossenkemper of Turtle Tone Studio in NYC.
Song used with permission by the band.

Episode Transcript

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This transcript is AI-produced and may contain errors. Please check back a few days after the episode airs for a cleaned-up version of the transcript.

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Teddy 0:00

Hi, this is Teddy. You're listening to Anna musky, Goldman and Anthony Bearcat from political playlist. I'm Two Broads Talking Politics. Get your vaccine.

Kelly 0:31

Hi everyone. I am Kelly. This is Two Broads Talking Politics. And I am on today with Anna musky Goldwyn and Anthony uppercut. From political playlist is so hello to both of you. Hi, thank you so much for having us for having us. Yeah. Thank you for joining me. So let's jump in with what is political playlist. This is fairly new. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about what it is and what got you started on it.

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 0:59

Yeah, so political playlist is a nonpartisan platform. You're correct. We only launched about seven months ago. But it's a nonpartisan platform that gives users new ways to connect to our political system. And currently, how we do that is we educate users about the youngest members of Congress, we focus on lawmakers who are under the age of 45. And then we also have a conversation series where we really talk to people in multiple fields, and just kind of learning how different fields intersect with our political system. Yeah.

Anthony Barkett 1:30

And you know, what really motivated us to start political playlists was, I would say, there was one event that it was for Abby finkenauer. And she came out to California and was fundraising. And she had a truly inspiring story. And she's about one or two years older than us. And, you know, we sat there and we go, how can we get her story out, and many other young politicians like herself to other people. And that really started us on the young politician train. And we realize that only 17% of our Congress is under the age of 45. And with that being said, we wanted to increase that number at some point. And exposing people to these young politicians, we thought was the way to go.

Kelly 2:16

Yeah, I love talking about young people in Congress, because it's the only time I'm considered young. I'm 42. So I, you know, I'm just you're totally a young person, Congress. So 17%. You know, I think a lot of people know about people like AOC, maybe they think about young politicians. But these aren't just Democrats. This is all over the political spectrum. What are their things that these different young people, quote unquote, Congress, people under the age of 45? Are there things that that they're thinking a lot about? What are the the issues that are really driving these politicians to run for office this early? Yeah,

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 2:53

I mean, one of the most interesting things that I think people don't realize is that there are a lot of issues that previously were considered quite partisan, that now amongst younger lawmakers are pretty much fully bipartisan. The one that I think would resonate the most with people is climate change. And, you know, we, we certainly grew up in a world where there was a faction of politicians who not only didn't believe in climate change, but were rejecting that there was anything that needed to be done, done about it. And now you see amongst young politicians that whether you're republican or you're Democrat, there is a consensus that this is happening, this is something that needs to be addressed. And what's interesting is, then, you know, people's politics differ on how to address that. But I think that what we see a lot from, you know, the the research that we do, and the information that we put out there is that there is more consensus, a lot around a lot of these larger issues that have more future implications, because we're the people who are going to be living with the repercussions of it. So I would say that climate change is sort of like the hot button, one that people you know, would be interested to know is increasingly bipartisan, and obviously, that a lot of young voters really care about.

Anthony Barkett 4:12

Sure. And, you know, I think just adding to what you mentioned, a lot of people out there know some of these young politicians, but you know, I would say on our platform, maybe only five so when you do go on there and get to understand some of these politicians. It's fantastic because you're reading about people you haven't really heard about and then end up really falling in love with after you know, a couple of newsletters falling in love with is a very hard. I'm in love with luck. There's some good looking members of Congress.

Kelly 4:48

So what is your platform? It's got a few different things. How are what are ways that people are interacting with it and learning more about these politicians? Yeah,

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 4:58

so we actually started on social media. We really focused on Instagram, because we want it to be a very design driven platform. And that really was born out of, you know, most people, but specifically young people now are can live a very high level, sort of a high standard for design, whether we know it or not just based on the world we live in. And so Instagram was really where we started, so people can find us on Instagram at political playlist. And then when we officially launched the platform that lives on our website, political playlist calm and our website, you go on, you take a quick survey that identifies what issues you care about what types of politicians you only about three minutes, we'd say it's like, you can have a cup of coffee, and you'll be done with it. And you'll be matched with five young politicians who speak to those interests. But then also on our website, we have a database of all the 74 politicians that are under 45. And we have a blog on so the the sort of hardier stuff on the platform lives on the website. But we also, you know, are very symbiotic with our social media. Yeah, and

Anthony Barkett 6:04

our conversation series as well. So you know, we're interviewing politicians, and then as well as other thought, thought leaders or political leaders, you know, that really speak to our generation and the way to engage in politics without feeling too political all the time. But, you know, one thing I just wanted to mention about our playlist on there is a feature that we've put in there that we think is really interesting is when you get your five politicians, you can opt in for this curveball candidate. And that's someone who will sort of be on the opposite end of the, you know, answers you put in, that our algorithm spits spits out. And we've noticed that the majority of the people who have signed up have opted in for this curveball candidate. So you know, you don't are necessarily you can stay in that echo chamber if you want to, but a lot of people are opting not to.

Kelly 6:57

Yeah, I like that. I tried it out. I did the survey, and I got a curveball. And it was someone I hadn't heard of, who is a Republican, spoiler alert, I'm a Democrat. And it was a Republican. But yeah, it was interesting, because I was like, Oh, yeah, she's close to my age. He's got kids, like, you know, there are things that we have in common. And yet, this is someone that I don't normally follow or think about. So I that was really fascinating to see that you're talking about Instagram and your use of Instagram. And I think Instagram is the one that is the one social media thing that I don't use as well or as much because it doesn't seem to play well with other social media. So there's lots of things that you can like spit out the same thing to Twitter and Facebook, and, you know, when it doesn't get to Instagram? What What does Instagram look like in terms of engagement? Are you like, as you're putting up conversation series and things like that? Are you getting that sort of organic conversation with the with the people that are following, you know, is are you do you think that this is ultimately reaching the kind of audience that you're hoping to reach?

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 8:06

Yeah, I mean, I think that the the really interesting thing about Instagram is that you, I think that there's something about a visual that really can get people going, and I think you get a slightly different demographic than you would get on Twitter. And while political playlist is certainly built for anyone of any age, you know, I mean, we're venturing into tik tok, we're not quite there yet. But, um, but certainly Instagram does skew younger in terms of the demographic of people who are on there. And we've had a lot of conversations with, you know, young people who have been enthusiastic about the platform. And most most young people get their news, like on Instagram, you know, now increasingly on other platforms like Tiktok. So I think that in terms of engaging with a demographic that we're really interested in reaching, Instagram is certainly a place to live and to create those conversations. And the other thing that I would add is that, you know, I know face Facebook has a live feature. I don't know if Twitter has a live feature at the moment, but

Kelly 9:13

I think it's not super easy to use them.

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 9:16

Yeah. But like the Instagram want, I mean, especially like, in COVID. You know, like, it has been this really interesting thing where we've had few very few resources when we were starting out, and we were able to have these live conversations with people. And it's cool when you're on Instagram Live, people can comment while you're talking. And just the shareability of it is really interesting. So I think that as a platform, like totally hear you, it's definitely maybe could use some, you know, editing in terms of deals with the other ones. But it's definitely worked out for us thus

Anthony Barkett 9:51

far. But I think the platform really grew because of COVID in terms of us being on Instagram, and when we first started this, I mean, we we Launched right before the last election. And, you know, we had, you know, tried to get the platform up and running, and then COVID hit. So Things just got delayed. And we realized a lot of our conversations had to happen, basically over zoom, Instagram Live, and that for most of the people actually felt comfortable doing. So, like it or not, I think that's how I really grew.

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 10:24

Yeah, we had a lot of big plans for live events. I'm sure many people had, and that was quickly disappear.

Kelly 10:32

Yeah, I was gonna, like get in a van and drive all over the country in 2020. And do live shows. And yeah, that didn't happen. We've all had to pivot. Yeah. But you know, it's I think it's good. Ultimately, we have more tools in our tool belt now that we can do those live shows, but you know, have better ways to connect to practice in the meantime. Yeah, exactly. So what got the each of you interested in politics in the first place? You know, of course, your dad played the President on TV. So you know, I don't I don't know if you were already interested in politics before that. But you know, what, what really sort of brought you into thinking that this is something that you want to devote, you know, a big chunk of what you're doing, focusing on politics?

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 11:18

Yeah, I mean, I would say that that played a very minimal part. I feel like watching your dad be a you know, lying cheating scandal as President, if not the most confidence instilling. Be a little bit weird. But on that note, for me, it very much did come from my parents. Um, I, you know, I grew up in a very engaged household. But, you know, I didn't I think like a lot of young, I mean, I guess young people now is different, right? Like, I'm a millennial, I think you see Gen Z. Now their 12 year old, you look at Greta tunberg, right. Like, yeah, there are people now getting involved earlier than ever, but I but for our generation, at least, like, I don't, people didn't really talk about politics when I was in middle school in high school. And then in college, you know, it started out Obama was the first president that you know, that was in office when I was of age. And I think that, you know, that created this dynamic, where suddenly I realized, Oh, this stuff is actually really important. And people like to bash on millennials as being sort of like a selfish generation. And I think that can be true. But I also think that it you know, we do understand how we relate to the world in a really specific way, I think. And so that's something that we're trying to capitalize on in political playlists, which is like, you know, there's a shared generational experience amongst many of the elected officials, you know, or most of the elected officials that we cover. And then people who are around our age that might have not been that interested in politics until they were in their 20s or in their 30s. And that's okay. You know, like, not everybody is born, an activist are born sort of like a regular voter. And sometimes it takes a little bit of work and education for people to understand that. So I was sort of, you know, I wasn't I was a voter, I was informed, but I wouldn't say that I was as engaged as some other people. So a platform like this would have been really helpful for me, actually, when I was in college, I think, yeah. And

Anthony Barkett 13:22

then I was in engaged a little more with internships. But I would say I was very influenced by my grandfather, he was an immigrant from Lebanon, came over to this country, the true American dream, and he had always encouraged me and all, you know, my cousin's to get involved in politics, because we're very lucky to live in a country where we can vote, be involved, be engaged. And I was lucky enough to do some internships in DC for three summers. But, you know, I think when it came down to as Anna and I somehow became, you know, that friend and the friend group, everyone came to ask about, who do I vote for? What do I do, and I don't know this person. So we started, we had, you know, in our separate group of friends, were making these lists for our friends and time them, you know, here's who we're voting for. Here's why check them out. And then we go, man, we wish we just had a playlist we could share with and now I sort of where the idea grew out of focusing more on young politician. Yeah, then, you know, statewide and whatnot for right now. Yeah,

Kelly 14:28

that's great. So you guys made me feel young earlier that I was a young politician. You made me feel really old when you said Obama was the the first president you could vote for but okay. Okay, we can go talk about some of the older politicians too. And that'll make you feel really, I mean, compared to someone like Chuck Grassley, you know, I'm a talker. So. So as as you were going through and putting this together and thinking about this, you know, what, what do you make of the fact that only 17% of Congress is under the age of 45. You know, so this is, you know, a generation that that has a lot of things that it's interested in, like you mentioned, climate change, but it also has a lot of roadblocks to running for office a ton of student debts, a, you know, not not a lot of wealth. I think something like 2% of all the wealth of millennials is held by one person. So you know, this is a group that, you know, that can, it really has a lot of things that could stand in the way of running for office, but a lot of good reasons to run for office, and there's still that need for representation. So, you know, what, what do you think are some of those barriers? And do you think that there are ways to get people engaged, not just in thinking about who do I vote for, but actually running for office? Yeah, I

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 15:48

think that I mean, money is like a big one that we've talked to a lot of people about, and I think, you know, the amount of money is something like it's about 1.1 point $5 million to run a congressional campaign. And, you know, and that's like, on the low, that's like, the lower and right, that's like if you're running sort of unknown, and, you know, a not high dollar state. So, so that, I think, is one of the biggest issues. And the cool thing is that, you know, when we started, there was 16%, under the age of 45, and Congress now after the 2020 election, there's 17%. So it is due to political. Um, it is growing. And I think that to your point, like there are these roadblocks, but I'm quite heartened in the fact that I think more and more and look, this last year has been sort of Case in point, people are understanding that politics is in their life, whether they want it or not. And I think for a lot of young people, I mean, like, we grew up essentially, in a partisan atmosphere. Like, I don't think that there was ever a time in my sort of, like, cognitive, adult or adolescent life that I remember thinking that like, things were going well. And, um, and so I think that there's this like, very natural disenfranchisement that has happened for people who will sort of be of that age to be running for office, like in their 30s and early 40s. Now, and, and I think that that's kind of shifting, because I think that people are finding more reasons to get involved. I think the other thing that's cool, and we've talked to a bunch of organizations on political playlist already is there are more and more organizations that are helping people run for office. So whether it's focused on young people, whether it's focused on minorities or women, I saw the you talk to someone for vote run lead, like that's a great example. So so I think that there that that has been noted that there are a lot of barriers. And not only in the public sphere, do I think that there's, you know, there's legislation out there to talk about campaign finance reform and whatnot. But also, there's a lot of nonprofits that are starting up to facilitate this, which I think is a great, a great thing on the left or the right, or wherever you fall. I just think that the more we can get with Anthony actually just interviewed representative Anthony Gonzalez, who's a republican from Ohio, and from

Kelly 18:16

my home district in Ohio. No way. There you go. Ohio 16.

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 18:22

He was such a great, great interviewee. But But he said this thing I thought that was really interesting was that you just have to get involved earlier. So it's like people are now understanding that state and local elections matter. People are understanding that primary elections matter. And hopefully, by seeing all of that stuff, they start to realize, like, I mean, like, we've talked to these young politicians, and it for them, it was just like, I have no other choice I have, I have to go do it. And I think more and more people are starting to feel that way. But I'm an optimist. So

Anthony Barkett 18:54

don't quote me. And and just to like, throw a few stats, though, at you, you know, fundraising is definitely a major impediment to getting involved in the race. And many of these young leaders we've talked to have said, You know, I was spending all my own money driving across by myself, have a family, you know, it's very difficult, you're down in the polls by, you know, 10 plus. But, you know, they were saying, you know, we're in a much more connected world than we've ever been before. And when some of these politicians come to the coasts or larger cities to do fundraisers, they said their average funding from a person in these big cities is above $50, usually around 75 to 100. And in their own hometowns at five to $10. So you can imagine how influential it is to get these young leaders out there. So people learn about them, hopefully tell their friends and help help them get to that goal. And you know, when we started there were 16% under the age of 45. Now we're at 17 before the platform was 65 percent democrat 35% republican politicians. Now after 2020, it's about 5050. And that was for mostly older young. I mean, older republicans retiring, and new younger republicans taking their place. So it's interesting to see how that shifts, you know, happened within that last election?

Kelly 20:21

And do you think with that shift to So, you know, it feels like the country is growing increasingly partisan. I mean, it's been pretty partisan for a long time, but it you know, it just keeps feeling like it's further and further apart. Do you think that as we get more younger representatives, you know, and especially as we get more younger Republicans who are replacing these older republicans than younger Democrats, replacing these older Democrats, that they will find ways to connect on these issues that can bring them together? These things like climate change, or you know, in the younger group, it might be student loan debt, or parenting? You know, there's all sorts of things that that might bring them together generationally, do you think that we'll see those kinds of conversations happening more? Are you seeing that happening a little bit more, as we move past the 2020? election?

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 21:08

Yeah, I think that, you know, look, there's always going to be the partisan issues. And that's the that's the way that the country is, and for the most part always has been. But I think that, you know, those issues that you said, another really interesting one that someone had been telling us about was that the deficit, which is traditionally seen as a conservative issue, is now becoming bipartisan amongst young politicians, because we're going to be the ones dealing with the national debt and 50 years, so so I think that as that list of issues grows, I feel that there, there is going to be more consensus around them. Because the other thing is that I don't, I think that there's, in the general public, now, there's a growing feeling of like, if you're not good, we're gonna find someone to replace you. And I don't think that that was quite as strong before. I mean, like, Look, the best example that obviously is AOC. Right, she felt like her incumbent was not doing a good job, she came in and surprised everybody and turned into who she is. So and that's not just AOC, that's happening all around the country, with much lesser known people who are, you know, primary challenging, they're sort of solidly red or solidly blue district. And I think that what that says is that they can also be challenged, and that there's more Anthony's point about us all being connected, it's like, there's more opportunity for someone to go on social media, and be dissatisfied with what you're doing as a politician. And there's a lot more opportunity for someone to go on social media, and be really, you know, praising of what you're doing. And so I see both sides of it. And so I think just with that sense of like public pressure, which is just, you know, swelling in every area of our life now, that that does create a new sense of accountability. And I think that, you know, one statistic that's very interesting is that 50% of Americans identify as independent, so they might vote one way or another more, but that's half of the country doesn't pick a party when they registered to vote. So that 50% is looking for something. And I think even if you talk to the most far left, or the most far right, people, everyone's kind of fed up with the rhetoric that's going on. And the outrage that people are stealing, seeing in our politicians, like we say it, like people are sick of outrage, politics, they

Anthony Barkett 23:38

even if you have these really strong, far left or far right beliefs, for the most part, you were all, you know, we're done with that. And I think that was, like, main reason why we started political playlists was, you know, on the left and the right, you have many organizations, after you read their newsletters, you are emotional, right, you kind of got a need to let off the steam. And we didn't want that we wanted to, you know, have something that anyone could read, anyone could enjoy. And, you know, I think, you know, today people are getting, you know, sick of the being so emotionally charged. And they want to just know the facts and who these people really are.

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 24:21

And I think what that ultimately will lead to, is to your to, you know, to your first question, which we've really diverted is, is that some Yeah, we're great at talking. But what that really leads to, I think, is that you will see consensus among people but and we see it literally every time that we go through the news about these 74 young people to send out in our newsletter. There are I would say almost a third of the news we're writing about is them working on a bill not just was not from the other party, but with someone from political playlist from the other party. So we see you know, people consume on CNN or Fox News or whatever, but there as you know, there's so much more going on in politics than just the headline of the day. And that's really what we want to get across is, you know that that level of information.

Kelly 25:12

That's great. And it's such a twist to think that you're using social media to tone down the emotion is not normally how quickly use of social media. It's so you know, maybe Instagram allows for that. That's, that's really great. Yeah, somebody wants to describe our podcast as politics without the shouting. And I was like, Yes. That is what we're aiming for. Thank you, finally, like the Public Radio Podcast. Yes, exactly. So you both pointed to family as being influential for you. If there are people like me who have young kids, you know, I know lots of people are listening who are raising young kids or teenagers, you know, do you have suggestions for how to approach politics in a way that will lead them to remain engaged, not get disenfranchised, you know, the way that that can often happen? You know, and raise the next budding generation of political playlist stirs?

Anthony Barkett 26:14

Yeah, I mean, I always say the best. And now, every school offers really unique and interesting programs. And I always tell young people, if you have the chance, try and get to DC. There are so many young people there, where you might not like politics, but there's so much more than politics going on. But the fact that you get to be on our nation's capitol, understand our history, and get to, you know, do it with a bunch of young people who, you know, aren't as like minded, but you, it allows you to have a menu of what there is to offer there. And that will engage you in politics for the rest of your life. I believe. A lot of my professors were were honestly a big influence into starting political playlist.

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 27:01

I would also say Verve a more mushy answer. That, you know, and this is something that we've heard from a lot of people that we've interviewed is that, I think there's a really overwhelming sense of, I have to care about everything, and I have to be an activist in every area in every issue. And I and that's just not the case, like, pick a thing, pick one issue, or a couple issues that really matter to you. And that, by the way, can be happening when you're 10 years old, if you're I mean, like when I was 10, I was like, all I cared about was animals. And I'm like, ah, like, if anything happens to an animal, I am going to lose my mind. And so if that's the thing when you're 10, and it might evolve, once you're 20, like encouraging young people to learn about what's happening in our government as a relates to the issue that they care about, because I know that I had a very intense feeling of being overwhelmed. Especially when I was like, in my early 20s. And even in my teens, like you mean, like we were in our early teens during like the start of the Iraq war. And it was just like, I was like, I don't really understand what's going on. But I feel like I need to care. And it was this really intense feeling of the world kind of like closing in on you. And it's okay to feel overwhelmed, would be my advice, and to just find the thing that matters to you, and then pursue that because someone else is going to pick a different thing. And they're going to pursue that. And so if we all just pick a thing, then suddenly, we are making the world better. And our ideas of better might differ. But that's what creates a healthy political system, as opposed to one that's just kind of built on, like, strong ideology without much on, you know, information and education to back it up.

Anthony Barkett 28:48

And we tried to implement that in our platform. And when you take our survey, we try to encourage everyone to, you know, focus on, you know, their four issues. And we've heard from some users that that was actually difficult for them. They had to sort of think, what are my top four? So you know, we're really encouraging people like Anna said, you know, you can make a huge influence by focusing on your one or two issues that matter to you most. Yeah,

Kelly 29:16

that's great advice for older people to not just everybody, everybody, Mom and Dad, if you're listening. So tell us how people can sign up and can get involved with political playlist. Yeah,

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 29:29

so you can go to political playlist, Comm. Click, create my playlist. And then like we had mentioned, you'll take a quick survey and be matched with five young politicians. Every other week, you'll receive news updates on those five politicians along with some other great stuff we put in our newsletter. And then as I said, you can follow us on Instagram, a political playlist. You can also find us on Twitter. And so yeah, but I think you know, going on our website, I'd also encourage people to we have a section or menu called meet your leaders. And that's a complete list of all of these 74 young politicians. And if you have some time, and it's something that interests you peruse around a little bit, you know, we think our website is really chic and great looking. And hopefully you will, too. And there's a lot of information on there and a really digestible way that we hope people can consume.

Anthony Barkett 30:20

And I think, you know, we can guarantee you, the news that you will be reading in your newsletter is stuff that you're not, you know, reading in the mainstream news. And it's, you know, sort of a breath of fresh air from the politics that a lot of people are dealing with on a daily basis.

Kelly 30:35

And of course, my favorite Congresswoman Lauren Underwood, from right here in Illinois is one of these 74. And she came out on my list. When I said Midwest women, x, right, is there anything else you guys wanted to make sure we talked about?

Anna Musky-Goldwyn 30:54

Well, speaking of Lauren Underwood, actually, one interesting thing about political playlists that, specifically maybe some of your listeners might find interesting is that our audience is mostly comprised of millennial women. And as a millennial woman, I'm very proud of that, because I think it means the millennial woman care about the future and want to get themselves educated. And so that's just kind of a fun thing to throw out there.

Anthony Barkett 31:15

And then I was gonna just mention, the other thing was, you know, we are young organization. But we were recently nominated for a Webby Award in government and civil innovation. And that was, our competition was the White House. And unfortunately, we lost but we came in second, with the people's voice board. So we were just really happy that, you know, as only around for six to seven months that, you know, we got notice for a design award. And we'll let the White House and let the white house now. Now it's time. It's time this time around.

Kelly 31:51

All right. Excellent. Well, Anna, and Anthony, thank you for joining me and thank you for stepping up and building this. I think it's great and I hope that you do get a lot of millennial and Gen Z people involved and I think it's great to highlight these younger politicians.

Sonya 32:08

Thank you so much for having us you very much appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Two Broads Talking Politics part of the DemCast Podcast Network. Our theme song is called Are You Listening off of the album Elephant Shaped Trees by the band IMUNURI. And we're using it with permission of the band. Our logo and other original artwork is by Matthew Weflen and was created for use by this podcast. You can contact us at TwoBroadsTalkingPolitics@gmail.com or on Twitter or Facebook @TwoBroadsTalk. You can find all of our episodes at TwoBroadsTalkingPolitics.com or anywhere podcasts are found.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai